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< General ~ Moving people to fill tables |
Should people be forced to move from their chosen table within the first 15-30 minutes just to make a new table have 7 players?
| Yes, it's not a problem. |
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| No, I've always thought that was wrong |
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| Who cares?? |
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Total Votes : 8 |
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| stevem |
 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:08 am |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 6
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We should not be moving people in the first 15 - 30 minutes of a session just to bring some other table up to 7 or 8. There are always more people on the way. Inevitably what happens is player A is arbitrarily moved from a table to make 7 at a new late comer's table and before they finish a single hand someone has come in and taken player A's original seat. Since we don't assign seats, people should have an expectation of at least spending up to the break at their chosen table.
Sorry, just ranting here but this does happen all of the time and can/could cause hard feelings. What do others think about this???
Steve |
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| Shamrock |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:46 am |
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 162
Location: Plano
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| I agree. If people arrive late...they may have to play short handed for a bit. That really isn't a big deal when blinds are 25/50 or 50/100. The TD is very busy trying to get things off the ground, and seat late arrivals. |
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| m1rs |
| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:18 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 27
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stevem wrote: Since we don't assign seats, people should have an expectation of at least spending up to the break at their chosen table.
On freerolls, we do assign tables.
Your post reffered specifically to moving players because late arrivals (I assume meaning after the tournament has started, not the people who seem to come in 2-3 minutes before the scheduled start time) requiring that additional tables be added. So, if there are 8 tables and a waiting list of 4, should we just open up table 9 with 4 people on it (when the rules state that only when determining the final table should a table play 4-handed) or make the 4 players wait for additional late people? What about when there's a huge all-in hand where 3 or 4 people get knocked out, leaving the table at 4 or 5 players when all the other tables have 8? Should the TD also not balance the tables since the first break hasn't yet occurred? I know that as soon as a table knocks a single player out, the TD is often notified. If 2 people go out, the TD seems to always be alerted -- repeatedly in many cases.
When I personally am faced with the reasonable possibilty of opening an extra table due to having a few people on the waiting list, I ask the tables to remember the low card when drawing for deal so that low card person is already identified. AHL has also recently adopted moving "position" rather than low card/volunteer to balance existing tables. The table needing to be brought up to the level fo the other tables is checked to see which positions are open and a person is selected from a table based purely on position. If UTG goes out one hand (which would be BB the following hand), we'll grab the UTG person from another table to come and post the BB.
My understanding of what the TD is doing has become much clearer having walked in those shoes than when I was a player. As a player, I'm concerned about my own table and nothing else. The TD has to be concerned with every table and the tournament as a whole.
Also, if your original statement referred only to non-freerolls, do you feel that freerolls should also be treated the same way or since there's a monetary prize, do you feel that overall balance is more "fair" to everyone involved? |
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| stevem |
| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:49 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 6
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Sorry, I should have been clearer (as Kitty quickly pointed out  ). I'm talking about the non-free roll 6 o'clock sessions when people are hurrying to get there and a lot show up between 6 and 6.30. Also I'm not talking about later moves needed to cover melt-downs at a sitting table, ie. a huge all-in hand where 3 or 4 people get knocked out. I agree with how the free-rolls determine seating. Although I'm not a big fan of the new "moving "position" rather than low card/volunteer to balance existing tables" option, I think it is the only fair way to do it. I know some people took advantage of "volunteering to move" to better their positions.
Thanks for Your Response,
Steve |
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| ckrex |
| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:55 pm |
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AHL Admin
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 1712
Location: Dallas, Tx.
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Just wanted everyone to know that I am following this post and barainstorming with my team.
I switched it that way originally to follow the guidelines of casino poker but I guess that may not be the best option?
I hope more people share their comments here so I can get more feedback.
Thanks,
Adam |
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| 8912 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:43 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 7
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| the other night at vc my husband was moved to THREE different tables in the first 15 minutes ... when shuffling between tables this much in the first 15 minutes you are at a disadvantage - half of the people were out of the tournament before the first break ... in my opinion the TD should wait before creating a new table and put any people that come in late on the wait list - if there are 8 people on the wait list then put those people on a new table OR as people are eliminated from the tournament fill in the wait list to those spots ... we get there 45 mins early, we spend money at the venue and then we are given a disadvantage because others choose to arrive late - that sucks ... just my opinion! |
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| m1rs |
| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:13 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 27
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8912 wrote: the other night at vc my husband was moved to THREE different tables in the first 15 minutes
Slap the TD next time you're there (it's me). I've managed to move a couple of people from one table to another, only to have to move them right back to where they started from within a few hands just because of "big hands". I assure you that I TRY to be fair, but I am imperfect. If you notify me to the fact that you've been moved recently, I'll try to re-examine the situation and make a change if I can. However, sometimes, I'm still left with "I'm sorry, but I need you to move again."
Quote: ... when shuffling between tables this much in the first 15 minutes you are at a disadvantage - half of the people were out of the tournament before the first break
This is also very telling of the issues we have at times. Most nights at VC (barring Sunday), there are 8-10 tables (often with a waiting list). On 8 tables, that's 64 people, and with half going out, that's 4 tables (32 people) being put out before the first break. When pulling from one table to another, I try to get people 1-3 positions behind the deal if such a position is available on the target table.
Quote: in my opinion the TD should wait before creating a new table and put any people that come in late on the wait list - if there are 8 people on the wait list then put those people on a new table
In my recollection, though it can be imperfect, I've only pulled from existing tables to create an extra table one or two times.
Quote: as people are eliminated from the tournament fill in the wait list to those spots ... we get there 45 mins early, we spend money at the venue and then we are given a disadvantage because others choose to arrive late - that sucks ... just my opinion!
You get the advantage of an extra 1000 in chips for arriving 45 minutes early. Also, the extra tables that are set up for tables 8-10 are the first ones consolidated to other tables and broken up. In addition, anyone arriving after the first hand is dealt in any blind is deducted 500 in chips per blind. Therefore, if a person arrives at the venue after the blinds are at 50/100, they will come to the table with no more than 6000 in chips (including bonus chips). If you're there 45 mins early, and qualify for all bonus chips for the first game, you'll be seated with a total of 8000 in chips.
Having said all of that, I'm one of the newest TDs and am far from perfect. I try to be as fair as I can, but if you feel I'm not being fair, bring it to my attention then and there. If you disagree in my fairness, please contact Adam via email, explain the situation, and let him know so he can address the situation. I want everyone to have the best experience possible and try to be fair to everyone. |
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| 8912 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:26 pm |
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 7
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| just to clarify - i wasn't complaining about my TD at VC ... just complaining about the disadvantage when being forced to move 3 times in 15 minutes ... it sucks ... i don't know what the solution is .... |
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